and marc thiessen who's a former speech writer for president george w. bush. there you have the campaign spokesperson, simon, coming out and saying expressly that the president believes it's a penalty, he disagrees with the supreme court that it's a tax and suggesting that they never referred to it as a tax. now, look, i want to show you what the president's lawyer argued to the u.s. supreme court. it's not like chief justice roberts pulled this out of his ear. this is the president's lawyer in front of the supreme court, okay? ready? follow me on this. justices, it is a tax law, fully integrated into the tax system that triggers tax consequences for noncompliance. megyn: simon, this is the president through his lawyer telling the supreme court it is valid as a tax. so are they being straight with the american people? and now sending ben lebolt, among others, to come out and say it's not a tax? >> well, let's look at what the architect of this strategy said about -- megyn: no, no. no, no. before you go to romney, before you go to romney let's stay on president